The Sentinel

Mr. Turk,
Kudos for a very good, informative article. I must, however, correct you on one very important matter.
In the article, you state that it is not legal to carry in a "gun free" or "safety" zone. Under federal law, 18 U.S.C. Section 922 (q)(2)(b)(ii), you may carry in a "gun free" or "safety" zone if you possess a license to carry issued by your state if that license was issued after law enforcement conducted a background check.
Ohio Revised Code has a similar exception that also allows carry in a "gun free" or "safety" zone.
Keep up the good work.

Bruce A. Beatty
Technical Sergeant, USAF (Retired)

Bruce,

You are correct...the AG's publication starts off with: "The law generally forbids the carrying of a handgun in a school safety zone unless..." and then gives a page of somewhat confusing information.

Thanks for the correction and thanks for your service in the Air Force.

Newbaum

First of all let me thank you for your efforts. As a former law enforcement officer who has seen several victims who may have been able to defend themselves if they had been armed, I strongly support this and other efforts to eliminate the "No guns" zones that give all the advantages to the criminals. After I got my Ohio concealed carry permit almost 4 years ago, I put together a document of lessons learned. If the author of this article will provide me with an e-mail address, I'll e-mail a copy of it to you. There some very good information in it that wasn't addressed in your article. In order to keep my comments here brief enough that others will want to read it, I'll limit them to the issue of where to get training and insurance. Like the author, I also took my CCW training at The New Albany Shooting Range. I thought it was pretty good training, but there are two other places I would recommend above them. The main problem with their training at that time was that an attorney was not involved during any part of it. I had so many questions that weren't addressed in the class that I paid an attorney who was a concealed carry expert for an hour and a half of his time to get those questions resolved. I would rate the New Albany training #3. At #2 I would put "The Powder Room" in Delaware County. The main reason is that the top concealed carry attorney in the state (Ken Hanson), who is also a deputy prosecutor and NRA certified instructor also teaches CCW classes there. He is also the author of a book about Ohio CCW. I have found him to be very knowledgeable and would highly recommend any class he was teaching. I think there are real advantages to being able to ask a real attorney with those kind of credentials questions during the class. #1 goes to The Tactical Defense Institute in West Union, Ohio. From what I hear of that place, they are worth the drive. Their training is much more expensive, but they go far beyond the basic techniques you'd learn in most CCW courses. When my son turns 21, I intend to help him pay to get his training there because it is so superior to what anyone else is offering. I would also like to point out what I believe to be another very important issue. If you think you'll have liability protection from your home owners insurance policy, think again. Chances are pretty good that you will not. Check into that, don't assume anything. The NRA does offer a couple of insurance policies that will afford you some protection if you are an NRA member. This is the only liability insurance I've been able to find for concealed carry permit holders.

I have had a considerable number of discussions about gun free zones with an attorney who is a concealed carry expert (Ken Hanson). The truth is that there are no guns zones where you can't legally carry a gun even if you do have a permit. It's best to check with an attorney if you're not sure. Ken published a book called "The Ohio Guide to Firearm Laws" that goes into detail about many of these zones. It's a plain English explanation of the CCW laws, and it's available in most gun stores. I would highly recommend this book to anyone who is contemplating getting a permit. It's a lot easier to understand than the legal documents you can download from the attorney general's site.

Gary,

Many thanks for your comments and information. Ken Hanson has been a life saver for concealed carry in Ohio since day one. He is a well known to the NRA, the Buckeye Firearms Association, and Ohioans for Concealed Carry and does plenty of pro bono work for the cause.

While I agree with your sentiments, the article and the training are meant to be introductory. Imagine you are new to firearms and concealed carry and some guy in your class wants to take 2 hours of the 10 talking about splitting legal fine hairs. There is a place for it and it is exactly where you describe; advanced reading and consulting with a lawyer. Perhaps an advanced CCW training course would be appropriate as well.

Feel free to send any info to our editor, chuffman@osusentinel.com

I understand that the South Dakota House passed a concealed carry bill for universities just recently. Hopefully it will pass the Senate as well.

Again thanks for your comments and thanks for taking the time to get your CCH license.

Newbaum

From the Chicago-Tribune:

Update: A seventh person has died in the shooting, according to DeKalb County Coroner Dennis J. Miller. In addition, he released the identities of four of the victims: Daniel Parmenter, 20, of Westchester; Catalina Garcia, 20, of Cicero; Ryanne Mace, 19, of Carpentersville; and Julianna Gehant, 32, of Meridan.

A gunman dressed in black stormed into an oceanography class at Northern Illinois University Thursday afternoon and opened fire with a shotgun and two handguns, killing five students and wounding 16 more in a matter of seconds.

Then, still on stage, he killed himself, authorities said.

The gunman was not a current student at the school of more than 25,000 that rises from cornfields and subdivisions 65 miles west of downtown Chicago, authorities said.

NIU President John G. Peters said the man had been enrolled as a sociology graduate student at NIU but left school last spring. Peters said the gunman had no police record.

Late Thursday, sources confirmed that they have tentatively identified the shooter as a 27-year-old graduate student in social work at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

A law-enforcement source said the man was found with a U. of I. identification card in his pocket, but the identification has not been confirmed.

Police also said they were unable to determine a motive for the shooting, which erupted shortly before 3 p.m., about 15 minutes before the class of about 100 students in Cole Hall was scheduled to end.

It was the worst campus shooting since April 16, 2007, when 32 people were shot to death on the campus of Virginia Tech University by a student who later killed himself.

From USA Today:

Push to permit guns on campus

By Marisol Bello, USA TODAY

Even before a gunman killed six people and injured more than a dozen others in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, a small but growing movement had been underway at universities and state legislatures to allow students, faculty and staff to carry guns on campus.

Twelve states are considering bills that would allow people with concealed-weapons permits to carry guns at public universities. The efforts were sparked by the Virginia Tech massacre last April.

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, an Internet-based organization with 11,000 members in its Facebook group, is calling attention to the issue with a protest from April 21 to 25, a week after the one-year anniversary of the shootings at Virginia Tech on April 16.

CAMPUS HORROR: Gunman kills 6, self at Northern Illinois University

"The only way to stop a person with a gun is another person with a gun," says University of Cincinnati sophomore Michael Flitcraft, 23, a mechanical engineering major who has a license to carry guns but is prohibited by university rules from bringing one onto the campus.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Virginia Tech | Northern Illinois University | Campus | Gunman

So far, 1,600 students on 500 campuses have signed up on Facebook to participate in the protest by wearing empty holsters to class. W. Scott Lewis, the group's spokesman, says about 530 students from 125 campuses joined a similar protest in October.

"School is the only place I'm not allowed to carry my weapon," says Washington State University senior Kristin Guttormsen, 35, one of the group's student leaders. He carries a .40-caliber Taurus Millenium Pro handgun.

"I felt defenseless and it started to bug me, especially with all the school shootings," he says. "We're not talking about convincing people to get licenses, we're talking about people who already have their licenses. And for the most part, they are older students."

South Dakota is the latest state to join the debate. The state House approved a bill last week that overturns the policy of the state's six public universities prohibiting guns on campus. A state Senate committee voted down the bill on Monday, but efforts continue to push the bill to the full body for vote. Other bills are pending in Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia and Washington.

Good article, Mr. Turk.

I attended the Tactical Defense Institute for my CCW qualification training since neither my prior firearms training nor my military service were recent enough. I took levels I through III and plan to go back for more some day. The facilities were excellent, as was the instruction by John Benner and staff.

IMO it is better to carry a medium cost & quality, reliable weapon and put one's money into the best training one can afford than the other way around. "Defensive software" is much more important than the hardware. Keep in mind Col. Cooper's admonition concerning an "expert with a .22 vs. a baboon in a medium tank."

Despite being "theoretically introduced" to the four count drawstroke by Kelly McCann ("Jim Grover's" security column that used to run in Guns & Ammo), I resisted it. I was reintroduced to it at TDI and am now a convert from Gunsite's "Modern Technique." The four count is better adapted to what "Southnarc" calls "the criminal assault paradigm," especially within the 0-5 foot ECQC range of combat, where your gun may not even leave the holster because you need to solve the problem with your hands or with an improvised weapon. Much different from the square range mentality. TDI also has courses which address those issues.

One buddy of mine described an inexpensive course he took as using .22 rimfires only, provided by the venue. Unless one plans to carry a rimfire and is dirt poor, this is decidedly NOT the way to go.

Thanks,

Karl

Paperwork, fees, and background checks to allow people to carry a side-arm? What kind of nonsense is this?

The right of self-defense is a corollary to the right to life; to deny one is to deny the other. The purpose of government is to insure our rights, not to infringe on them.

The fact is that governments should not be involved in permitting the carriage of weapons, either openly or concealed, by anyone, anywhere.

Our constitution states that the right of the people to keep (possess) and bear (carry) arms shall not be infringed. Marbury v. Madison (1803) decided that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and that any law that contradicts the Constitution is null and void. "The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and the name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it; an unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed ... An unconstitutional law is void." (16 American Jurisprudence 2d, Sec. 178)

In Murdock v. Pennsylvania (1943) the Supreme Court stated that a constitutionally-protected right may not be licensed, nor a fee charged. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is one of those protected natural rights.

In Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham, Alabama (1962) the Supreme Court decided that ?If the state does convert a liberty into a privilege, the citizen can engage in the right with impunity.? (That means they can't punish you, folks!)

To paraphrase an oft-quoted movie line, "Permits? We don' need no steenking permits!"

Neil Evangelista
NRA Pistol & Personal Protection Instructor